S3E13 of Tatreez Talk: Allyship in Tatreez Spaces with Bayan and Eman
APPLE PODCASTS | SPOTIFY | AMAZON MUSIC
For the Season 3 finale of Tatreez Talk, we’re bringing it full circle with two of our very first guests—Bayan and Eman—OG tatreez artists and small biz trailblazers in this space.
This episode opens up a conversation many of us have been having quietly, behind closed doors—because sometimes, that's the only way it feels safe. But we knew it was time to bring it into the light. We talk about the unseen labor, emotional weight, and deep care behind the work we do—especially when that work involves preserving and sharing a culture that’s under threat.
People say “support small businesses,” but they rarely see what that really means—especially when your business is also your identity, your history, and your resistance.
Give it a listen, and as always, I’d love to hear your thoughts and appreciate you share this conversation with a friend you think would benefit or enjoy it!
Episode Shownotes
WE WELCOME BACK TWO RETURNING GUESTS—BAYAN FARES OF BADAN COLLECTIVE (@badancollective) AND EMAN TOOM OF HINT OF TATREEZ (@hintoftatreez)—FOR A POWERFUL CONVERSATION ABOUT CULTURAL PRESERVATION, APPROPRIATION, AND THE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT COME WITH TEACHING PALESTINIAN EMBROIDERY. The discussion kicks off with personal stories: how both Bayan and Eman came to teach tatreez, and what it means to them in the context of identity, diaspora, and community healing.
The conversation dives deep into the ethics of cultural appreciation versus appropriation, especially as tatreez gains more global attention. The guests examine the nuances of who gets to teach, who benefits, and how to honor the legacy of Palestinian women who carried this tradition through generations of resistance. They highlight the harm caused when non-Palestinians teach tatreez without proper context or understanding, and they share ways to engage respectfully—through learning, crediting, and supporting Palestinian-led efforts.
Together, the group doesn't just critique appropriation—we envision new paths forward. We discuss what true allyship looks like in the embroidery space and emphasize the importance of listening to Palestinians, following their lead, and uplifting their voices. The episode is an honest, generative, and hopeful space where complexity is welcomed—and where tatreez is reclaimed as both an art form and an act of resistance.
You’ll hear about:
>> 1:13: The inspiration behind why we began to teach tatreez
>> 14:12: Non-Palestinians teaching and hosting tatreez workshops
>> 31:30: Why there is an appropriate way to learn and practice tatreez
>> 41:18: Hiding behind charity and the intersection with tatreez
>> 52:12: How to engage with tatreez with cultural appreciation
Rate, Review, & Follow on Your Favorite Podcast Platform
“I love Palestinian embroidery and Tatreez Talk.” <– If that sounds like you, please consider rating and reviewing our show! This helps us elevate the vibrant narratives of Palestinian embroiderers and support more tatreez-ers — just like you — in learning more about tatreez and connecting with each other. You can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and others -- just scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, and select “Write a Review.” Then be sure to let us know what you loved most about the episode!
Also, if you haven’t done so already, follow the podcast. We’re adding a bunch of bonus episodes to the feed and, if you’re not following, there’s a good chance you’ll miss out. Follow now!
Transcript
Amanne: Hi stitchers! Welcome to Tatreez talk, where we share conversations about Palestinian embroidery. I'm Amanne here with my co-host, Lina, chatting with talented embroiderers and artists sharing their stories, inspirations, and the cultural significance behind their work.
Lina: On today's episode, we're bringing back two of our previous guests to host a roundtable discussion around the importance of cultural appreciation versus appropriation. How can non-Palestinians engage with Tatreez in a respectful way.
Amanne: Into the topic. Of course, as Lina said, we are really excited to welcome back our guests, Eman, from Hint of Tatreez and Bayan from Bayan Collective. Collective welcome back to both of you, Bayan. You're now a 3rd time, Guest Eman, this is your second time. You guys are like VIPs.
Bayan: We're so glad to be back. At least I am. I'm so glad. This is literally the 3rd time like you said so. I'm so excited to be here.
Eman: Thank you. I'm also very happy to be back and having this discussion with you guys.
Lina: We have a lot to talk about.
Lina: Yeah, we had to kind of pause. We had actually record before getting into this, because there is lots to talk about here. So obviously this conversation isn't new. But we did decide to have this conversation together after the topic of non-Palestinians teaching Tatreez came up. So let's maybe start there. Can each of you share what inspired you to begin teaching Tatreez, and how you view its significance in preserving Palestinian culture. Maybe, Bayan, do you want to kick us off.
Bayan: Sure. Yes, what inspired me to teach Tatreez?
Bayan: I feel like I started like way like a few years ago. I think I was one of the first, st not the only, but one of the 1st to really kind of start teaching workshops. And for me I was just really inspired by
Bayan: That time in my life had kind of come back into my life very organically. I don't know if everybody knows, but I've been practicing Tatreez for about 12 years, and then I took a break to get my master's from the University of Chicago. So there was like this small incubation of like 2 years, or almost like 3 years, where I didn't practice. And then, I believe, around 2021, I just all of these, like.
Bayan: I think everybody around that time can kind of attest to this like something was in the air, and it was so palpable. And for me it was just something was just calling me to pull all my old projects out that I thought I was like completely done with. I was not going to practice again, and I pulled them out again, and then I started going to my aunt
Bayan: to kind of upgrade some of my skills and to learn how to use voice, canvas, and all of these, like new tools about traditional embroidery and things like that.
Bayan: And at the same time I also held one of my very, very 1st workshops, and then a few other months go by, and I held my second workshop, my 3rd workshop, and then all of my friends were just, you know, inviting me to come to their communities. And I was just like, Oh, it wasn't anything super huge. I was just gonna do a workshop every once in a while, and then one of my friends suggested starting kind of like.
Bayan: proactively reaching out to people. And I was like, you know what I think this is something that I truly find a lot of joy in, no matter how much planning, and I'm sure you can kind of relate to this, too like, no matter how much planning you do before the workshop, you just come alive when you're doing it.
Bayan: and that to me was just like a Testament to how much I love what I do. And so I just kept going with it. And then, as you guys know, I launched the summer tour. I think, in 2023. And then that really just kicked us off. We did a national tour. And then
Bayan: we just. I just kept going. After that, Alhamdulillah, we did another spring tour, and then. Now we just take regular requests for workshops. And so that's kind of how my journey ended up panning out.
Amanne: How about you, Iman?
Eman: I would say I have a lot of similarities with bay and story, but my teaching journey is, I would say, twofold. So
Eman: I've been practicing Tatreez for
Eman: similar, you know. Similarly, about 12 ish or so years now. And around. Well, actually, in 2020, as we all know, we're all sitting around at home.
Eman: It's nothing to do.
Eman: And I started doing Tatreez more. And I've always been sharing my work online. I sew also. So I used to like, share my sewing online. And when I started sharing my Tatreez online, people would like, ask me always like, come into my DMs and ask me, how did you learn? Where did you learn? Where do you buy supplies? How can I learn? What should I buy like? Where do you get patterns like it was all these questions about Tatreez and I literally I had like
Eman: an answer saved. For like just to send to people of like
Eman: check out this book, watch this video, go here, buy this like I had all these like things. And then.
Eman: as like, you know, we're just sitting at home, and
Eman: I don't know how to sit still. I don't know if that's something about me when I have like time off. It's not like ever time off, and I was like, you know what I should do something with this where, like, I can teach people. So I decided to start making kits, and I did the instructions. I took all the pictures, and it was like very much so a passion project at that time.
Eman: and just something to keep me busy, and then I got pregnant. So I kind of like held off. But long story short, I launched my kids, and again it was just kind of a passion project. I didn't think much of it like I thought, you know.
Eman: I would get like someone interested here or there, but it actually went really well, and it really motivated me to keep teaching. And in that capacity. So I did more kits. And I would like share online and things like that. And it like
Eman: what always motivated me was people's excitement and willingness to learn. And it was just like me, knowing that I could pass on that skill to other people that maybe are not privileged enough to have learned from their elders, because, as we know, like, is usually passed down from like grandmother to mother to daughter, and it's like a very
Eman: communal like skill that's taught like a lot of us don't have the opportunity to learn that way. So for me. It was very exciting to see Palestinian women like really embrace their culture in that way and learn
Eman: the threes. And then, naturally, I wanted to start doing in-person workshops.
Eman: here, specifically where I live in San Diego. And the reason being, I just like I didn't know anybody that was teaching in person and a lot of times. It's a lot easier to learn in person. It's nicer. You get a community of people, you can ask questions, you can share skills, and
Eman: you can make friends like I'll touch on that in a little bit. But
Eman: like that was one of the biggest like shocks to me is like how many friendships were made for my classes. So.
Eman: and not only myself, but just the students in my classes, but
Eman: Basically, every time I taught somebody new. It motivated me to do more and more. And yeah, my in-person workshops like really became such
Eman: a blessing for me. And I have like seen it
Eman: really like, strengthen and grow the cities community here in San Diego. Which I like absolutely love. And I'm like so grateful for. So yeah, it's if I rewind a little bit I taught my 1st workshop.
Eman: I believe it was.
Eman: I have to look back, but I think it was like around 2022
Eman: and then I took a I did my 1st workshop, and then I felt like, you know what I still feel like. I have a lot to learn. So I took like about a year off from teaching.
Eman: And I like
Eman: learned more myself. I like strengthened my skills. And I just did more and more research on like.
Eman: because I never wanted my classes to feel like, just.
Eman: you know, something that you can learn on your own. Not that
Eman: I don't know how to explain it, but I wanted my classes to really offer something to people. And my 1st class, although, like the students were wonderful, and they all praised it. I just felt like it wasn't.
Eman: It wasn't my all. I wasn't giving it my all. So I took a little break, and then, when I felt ready, I came back to teaching, and I've been doing like monthly workshops ever since.
Eman: so yeah, that's a little bit of my journey with teaching.
Amanne: I'm going to do the unusual thing. And Lena, because also, obviously, you teach as well. And I know you and I have talked a lot about kind of the significance about preserving culture through teaching. So do you want to share a little bit about what like inspired you to start teaching.
Lina: And you know, I'm just gonna give the question right back to you. Right? I mean, the world.
Amanne: I'll be quick!
Lina: Yeah. I mean, I think for me personally, like engaging with in my own way by myself in my own capacity, is one thing, but then, being able to share it with other people, really does require kind of that exposure to in-person experiences. And I think that was what I wanted to gain honestly, it was actually more of a like selfish
Lina: way of thinking about it, like I want into teaching to find out whether or not I would be a good teacher, and it was only through doing it over and over and over again that, you know, I figured out the most number one questions that people are asking the the parts of the process that they're going to have a hard time with. And then every single time
Lina: I did this one piece of feedback that I get is, you know. Thank you so much for sharing the history. Thank you so much for sharing. You know where this practice comes from, and why it matters why it's meaningful, where? Why? There's symbolism in it, and
Lina: that has been very eye opening for me, because I don't think that could have happened if it was just someone who was not Palestinian or someone who wasn't engaging with it in the same way that a Palestinian would just naturally engage with Tatreez.
Lina: And so for me, that was kind of what snowballed kind of getting into more and more workshops, and then transitioning to virtual classes and courses online and thinking about how to have an experience virtually digitally where you're not with someone in person. And I think there's value in both. I think it. Really, you know, there's.
Lina: you know, like Iman mentioned, not everyone has the ability to learn from their grandmothers, but and they also maybe don't have the ability or chance to learn from someone in person. So the virtual option came in in that way. But yeah, I mean, I think for me. It's it's been so eye opening in terms of what types of questions people are asking, what they're taking away from the workshop itself, what kinds of feelings they are experiencing as they engage with needle and thread in a more communal capacity when that is
Lina: kind of a center of the practice of Tatreez. And so I've noticed that teaching Tatreez is, in fact, part of the process of preserving the art form, and it's not just about maintaining the technicality of how to do Tatreez. It's also about the stories that you tell and the experiences that you have and the feelings that you share with other people, and also, like Iman, mentioned the connections that people are making amongst themselves in in that capacity.
Lina: So for me, that was kind of you know what continues to inspire me now in terms of teaching. So, Amani, your turn.
Amanne: Yeah, I mean for me it honestly, it all happened very organically, like I never sought out to teach. I never sought out to become a quote unquote business, like, you know, even when I started stitching myself like, I started designing patterns, because, as we all know, I'm not the most traditional galley. And so, you know, I like my my style.
Amanne: And so I started making patterns myself because of that. And then people were like, Can we buy the patterns. And then I was like, Can we get kits? And you know, so everything happened organically and even like teaching. All of it has really happened organically, like I do most I teach mostly like locally in the San Francisco Bay Area. I've done a few virtual classes specifically, for, like my photo, the 3 stuff and all that
Amanne: but I always say like, when I started stitching, I learned
Amanne: via Youtube via Roba learned like literally learned technique.
Amanne: And then, the moment I had an opportunity to take a class, even though at that point I've probably been stitching for
Amanne: maybe a year or 2. I still took a class, and I took multiple classes. And I still will take classes. Because learning, as you said, Lena, the history and the background. That's what makes it
Amanne: stitching versus the threes. I feel like, you know, like that's what changes it. And you know, makes it something different. And I think all of us. We all, as a part of all of our classes, like we all teach like a bit about the history, like, you know, I'm sure, for most of us, like a good chunk of our classes, is that background and that history. And we'd probably want to teach more if we could.
Amanne: But it's such an important part of learning, Tatreez. And you know, Lena, you also said it. Like, you know, it's the difference between a Palestinian teaching the class. And like it's, it is our history. It's it's who we are. It's everything, you know. It's our entire existence. So it is important for it to be a part of any of the classes. That are taught, which you know, as we've all said, like, it's something that we all do
Amanne: and kind of pivoting from that, you know, we we talked a bit about like what inspires us and all of that.
Amanne: But let's also kind of get into the crux about like
Amanne: how do you all feel with there is this increasing number of non-Palestinians who are hosting Tatreez workshops and teaching Tatreez? You know
Amanne: there are.
Amanne: I'm just let's let's just jump into that first.st How does that make you feel as a Palestinian, as a Palestinian Tatreez artist, as a Palestinian Tatreez educator. Let's talk about how we feel about non-Palestinians teaching and hosting Tatreez workshops.
Lina: And I see that Bayan has gone off mute.
Bayan: I was off mute this entire time. I was gonna say, I see us all smirking. So I was gonna ask, who wants to go first.st
Bayan: Listen! I think I I will say it is. It is. There is something to it that is beautiful.
Bayan: because I think the sentiment
Bayan: that everybody is sharing is we wouldn't have continued doing what we're doing without the community support without their interest, without their engagement. I always say that, like, you know, a class is up made up of like 30 people. If I'm the only one that shows up and the 30 people don't come. It doesn't work.
Bayan: You know it, to sustain the momentum that we have over the past 2 years. It gives me chills like, I think, that that needs to be recognized, and the vast majority, I will say, of my students.
Bayan: I wouldn't say the the majority of them, but it's been at least a half half mix of Palestinian and non Palestinian, and when a Palestinian walks into my class versus a non Palestinian, I always kind of start off my workshops with
Bayan: mentioning how each of those 2 individuals could walk into myself, walk into my class of being intentional, and I think, as a Palestinian like Iman and Lena have mentioned. Like. Usually we do learn this from like our families, and by virtue of us being in the diaspora, we have been disconnected
Bayan: from that reality. And so. You know, not even just now, but like in the aftermath of 1948. This is how you know how Palestinians were also forced to learn is in these collectives and in these classes, because they've been disconnected. That is a part of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians is to disconnect them from their people from their crafts, from their history, and for us, like
Bayan: Palestinians, is like in Arabic. It's like we're stubborn. We will plant our roots and grow those roots wherever we go. And I think, like all of us being in different parts of the country, we're able to bring to life. This tradition of is so beautiful that
Bayan: we are so far apart from each other, but every Palestinian whose grandma passed away, and it happens very often by the way, whose grandma passed away, and they didn't have an opportunity to learn who like. They're the only Palestinian here, and the rest of their families overseas, or like their mom just doesn't know how, but their grandma did. But their grandma's overseas, like there are so many stories like that, and every single Palestinian that walks in has
Bayan: every single right to learn this, and to reconnect and to like.
Bayan: Put that plug back in to their grandma, to that 1948, and to keep going. And so I think that is like something super beautiful and magical about what we can do and offer through these workshops and for our community, and how Palestinians can be intentional. And I think when non-Palestinians walk into our classes.
Bayan: they're also like engaging and learning about Palestinian history, and there is a unique lens to in how someone can
Bayan: learn about the Palestinian cause in a different way than in the political realm or in the research realm, or, like, you know, in the boycott realm, this is the creative
Bayan: world. And this is like a nice way to pull people into our cause. And I think that is the defining element is, are you.
Bayan: you know, considering the Palestinian cause? Are you connecting
Bayan: to its history, or are you only practicing the art? And I think that connection. If Palestinians are doing it, we are seeking this out because we've been so deprived of it, like if we are seeking that connection out, and as a like a like actual literal lifeline, like a literal lifeline against our own ethnic cleansing, I need to reconnect with my people with my art.
Bayan: you know. Non Palestinians coming into the space it and it's by far been like a very beautiful
Bayan: engagement with it. But if a non-Palestinian does come into the space, and it is rare that it happens. But they come in and they rip that disconnection apart, that that connection apart.
Bayan: I feel like, what does that say about their contribution to our ethnic cleansing or to our preservation of our craft?
Bayan: So it's it's just about being intentional with how you approach Tatreez. It's about being intentional with how you approach a Palestinian artist. And and it that goes
Bayan: when you walk into the classroom, and when you walk outside of the classroom as well, how how do you uphold what you learned? How do you continue your practice of the threes? Are you loud about your support for fellow steam? And if you do hold the circle, and I think this is something I want to hear. Everybody else's opinion on, too, is, you know.
Bayan: are you pulling in another Palestinian artist or a Palestinian in your organizing? Are you making that direct effort to make that connection between art and people. Are you selling things? Which is a huge conversation? I know we're going to talk about? And most importantly, are you taking what you learned in class.
Bayan: Whether it's certain motifs or whatever are you using that Palestinian artist?
Bayan: Let's say resources
Bayan: and using them without them knowing for your own gain. And so there, there's all these conversations that I think we need to have just around the general etiquette of how someone can approach someone. And the last thing I'll say is, I just I want to be clear that, like the majority of
Bayan: non-Palestinians like, I never differentiate between someone in my class who's Palestinian and non-Palestinian. I don't even notice, because the majority of people are super gracious like it's never apparent unless someone obviously is like, I'm Palestinian. I'm from so and so where are you from? Because we need to make our presence known as Palestinian.
Bayan: But I think the majority of people are gracious. It's just like this conversation around guidelines and the general etiquette of how to approach. And specifically Palestinian artists, too, that we're going to have. But I want to hear what you guys have to say, too.
Lina: So my biggest thing that I want to like also share on top of basically what you're talking. The thing that the thing that you said that really stuck out to me that I'm really passionate about is, are you finding Palestinians in your orbit like you mentioned? Are you
Lina: Palestinians? Because here's the thing we are around. We have our arms raised. We are very vocal like you can find us, and I bet you were probably in your locale. So that's the part that really like. Just so, this is like just an example. It's not specific. But it was because I was doing a workshop at a conference.
Lina: and the conference was about, you know, education and English education in the Us. And this woman had had a panel on bringing more Palestinian voices into the classroom, and her example was a collection of short stories written by Palestinians in Gaza.
Lina: This woman had a panel on, bringing Palestinian voices into the classroom, and there was not one Palestinian person.
Amanne: And.
Lina: Present, and the only reason that she got away with this panel is because she's not Palestinian, because all the other Palestinians who applied for similar conversations, or whatever to be present, were all rejected because they had the words Palestine or Gaza, but because she's not Palestinian. She had the ability to be there, and she had the opportunity to actually actually bring Palestinian voices.
Lina: And this is the same thing with Tatreez. Like, if you are going to be teaching totres or having a circle, or you want to bring it to your university or to your community.
Lina: Reach out to one of the Palestinians that you see, because there are plenty of us, and we are all very excited to bring Tatreez to you, and we believe that it is
Lina: like you, said Bayan. It's like it is a tool for the resistance against what's happening in Palestine, currently and in the past. So that's the part that I feel very passionate about, and I think needs to be just super highlighted.
Amanne: Yeah, no, I completely co-sign that, and I will go as far as saying like, Look, if you have an issue with this, you can come for me. This is a manny. You can message me directly. I will ignore you, but you can. You can air your grievances with me if you are not Palestinian, you 100 should not be teaching and leading a workshop.
Amanne: If you are not Palestinian, you should a hundred percent not be leading and hosting Tatreez circles. If you are not Palestinian, you should a hundred percent not be making any profit off of Tatreez or any other aspect of Palestinian culture. The only exception to that is, if a Palestinian artist is collaborating with you.
Amanne: that I'll give an exception other than that flat out. You just shouldn't. Now, as Bayan has said, as Lena said, 100%. If you are non-Palestinian, you are welcome to enjoy and appreciate the culture, become a part of the culture engage in the culture, but also, as Lena just said.
Amanne: if you don't know any Palestinians, if you don't know enough Palestinians to know that you should not be engaging with our culture in unethical ways. Then I need you to 1st start by actually making Palestinian friends get to know Palestinian people first, st before you start diving into our culture.
Amanne: because then you will understand you will. We won't even have to explain this to you, I think, as said, like most of the non-Palestinians who come to all of my classes who engage with my work, who reach out, who support whatever
Amanne: they get it like. I mean, they're not the people that need to hear this message, because I feel like they understand it. But there are far too many people who, you know. Let's give them. I'm going to give them the grace to say, like, I think most people mean well, I genuinely do think that most people who do this mean? Well, they just don't know like I had somebody who and I'm not trying to call this person out at all, because they actually like
Amanne: engaged in such like inappropriate way with this. But like I posted something not that long ago about this subject
Amanne: on social media, and someone reached out to me and said that they are non-Palestinian, and they've been hosting classes. They have not made a profit. They donate every single penny to like mutual funds, and like mutual aids and all that stuff, and they were like asking me like my thoughts on it all. And I said, Look.
Amanne: you should find a Palestinian to host those classes, and just kind of like. That's what it is like. It is what it is. And she was super gracious, completely understand? Thank you so much like. I did not realize Yada Yada, and that was done. That's how that's how it should be
Amanne: like. That's the appropriate way to address it like no one needs to be like, you know, shamed in Town Square or anything like that. But yeah, I mean, if you're if you're doing something that you don't realize is inappropriate, and someone's addressing you and letting you know it's inappropriate.
Amanne: Take that L, and just be like my bad and keep it pushing like that's that's my piece on it.
Bayan: Yeah, I think it's also important for people tuning into this to understand like where this conversation is coming from, too.
Bayan: And like you. You, said Amani, like who specifically, we are addressing? Because and I think this is what you touched on to a little bit, Nina, in terms of that one panel that you were talking about. But this entire conversation is also really just how to be a good ally, and I do think that there are some people who are so in tune to it, and who are so gracious, and they do every single thing to make sure that they are approaching this craft?
Bayan: Respectfully and with honor. And like, we actually do need that like, we actually do need non-Palestinians to engage in this. We do need non-Palestinian allies like we need that. I think everybody knows that. I think it's just the difference between there is this
Bayan: line where Palestinians are at the forefront. We're we are literally at the beginning of that line. We're the 1st line of defense. And what we're trying to do is we're trying to bring all these non Palestinians up to speed back. You know we are all the way back there. Come on. It's been 76 years like we need to bring you guys back up here.
Bayan: and to really kind of like be with us shoulder to shoulder. But I think where it comes to.
Bayan: like some where this conversation is coming from is when
Bayan: not those non-Palestinians step in front of us.
Bayan: and it's like, wait, wait, wait! We brought you up to speed so you could stand with us, not in front of us, not you know what this exists both. By the way, I've seen this exist in the political realm, not just in the world where non-Palestinians will have the mic, they will, and there's literally Palestinians right next to you, and you continue to speak. You continue to, for example, where
Bayan: you know, and and not give the mic to the Palestinians that are next to you, who are asking to speak, and similarly, with the Palestinians like there are so many like, I'm sure, like when when I started, Iman was already started. Lina, you were already started, even you as well, I mean, I think everybody here we had already. Our accounts were kind of like bubbling up in those 1st couple of years, but I think we can all agree that, like we are in a different age now, where there are, there is an expansion of
Bayan: the three's instructors. There's an expansion of the 3 circles happening. There is, you know, we are kind of like innovating in our own way. But the community is expanding. And that's so beautiful to see. So like this conversation where it's coming from is at the perfect junction of time that we exist in like. I don't think if we had this conversation, as for and you know, on this episode and released it.
Bayan: You know, December of last year that that would have been appropriate because of what was happening at that time last year, I think what's happening now is we're seeing this stabilization of
Bayan: and the Tatreez community. And now we want to sustain that momentum in a way that keeps it alive for years to come, and within that, like sustainability of it, we are having this conversation to kind of again. Talk about the etiquette about how these communities can grow and and should grow. And
Bayan: you know how people walk into these spaces as well because there is an etiquette as a Palestinian knows. Like we have our food, we have our dance, we have our clothing. We're always super hospitable to anybody that walks into our house.
Bayan: We literally will pull people off the street to welcome them in, you know.
Bayan: So you're in a Palestinian's home. You're in someone's home as a guest, or you're being gifted something. It's just a matter of how you.
Bayan: you know. Treat that gift, how you act in someone's home. That, you know, or that metaphor of the line. If you step in front of that line, I think this is those are the specific people
Bayan: that we are talking about and addressing. And there's also a lot of things that are unsaid. And so there's like, Imani said, there's a lot of people that don't know. And so that's where this conversation is coming from is to say this, to know this, so that we all know how to engage better with one another, how I am able to better stand on my own voice and my own 2 feet. When a student asks me a certain question
Bayan: about certain things, and I'm like, wait, that's a little bit of appropriation. We need to have this conversation. Well, now, we have this backing of like, no, like, this isn't just me. I'm not just crazy. This is like how
Bayan: you know, we can't speak for all Palestinians. But there is a general consensus about what is appropriate appropriation and what is not, and also for those students walking into this class to not feel bad like we're not trying to shame anyone but for them to know. Wait. Okay, there's an etiquette. Let me just read the guidelines real quick. Okay, got it. I can go into that Palestinian home. I know how to act. I don't need to be embarrassed. Everything's good. I think this is where that conversation is really coming from.
Eman: So. I have been just absorbing everything that you ladies have been saying and all your opinions, and
Eman: really trying to figure out what I want to add to the conversation, because I feel like anything that needs to be said has been said and I want to just
Eman: make a point to to say to the audience that if you
Eman: are listening and you're hearing, like the passion, the anger, the sadness in our voices.
Eman: just like Diane said, none of it is to shame anybody or make anyone feel bad.
Eman: The reason that there is so much emotion is because our like
Eman: whole lives and identities are tied to our like existence as Palestinian women especially. All of it is tied to Tatreez, and I think I can speak for everybody here when I say that, like we, we treat Tatreez, and this, you know, we treat our culture with the utmost respect.
Eman: like we, I think, take it very, very seriously, at least like, I know that when I started
Eman: teaching, and you know, even like selling things online, but especially when I started when I decided I was going to teach.
Eman: Here is my local community the 1st thing I did, and I'm not saying like, I don't have a rule book to tell people what to do when they're starting anything. You know. I just have my opinion and my feelings, and you know
Eman: my point of view. I'm sorry if I sound a little. I'm a little sick, so I'm sorry if my voice sounds weird. But the 1st thing I did before I even thought to host a workshop was. I went out looking to see if anybody was already doing it, and especially like if there was already a Palestinian person in my area teaching Tatreez, because the 1st thing I would have done was approach that person and say, like.
Eman: Hey, like, I'm interested in teaching, I'm interested in this, that, and the other like. Can I help you? You know I had someone actually approach me in that way as well. When I started teaching, she said, like, Hey, like, I love teaching like, I don't want anything out of it like, Can I help you some days? And I was like, sure like, yeah.
Eman: And I thought that was so great. So that was the 1st thing I did. And again, I'm not saying like.
Eman: who am I to tell you what to do. But I'm just saying, from my point of view, that was the 1st thing I did, and the reason I did that is because.
Eman: especially when I start teaching before. And I'm gonna be really frank, like, before October 7th there was
Eman: like, I would say, a fraction of people interested in even learning anything about policy and culture. It is what it is. It's just the reality.
Eman: So when I hosted my 1st workshop, there weren't really that many people that I could find that were
Eman: interested in learning like I had a pretty small class, and so I. The last thing I wanted to do was to take away from somebody who had been doing the work for years, and just like, Show up and be like, Well.
Eman: here I am. I'm teaching, and like my cost is, gonna be cheaper than yours, and I'm gonna take all your you know, both.
Amanne: Yeah.
Eman: So that was the last thing I want to do. So I looked. I couldn't find anybody, that there was nothing going on, and I would have known about it, because I was already so like
Eman: entrenched in, like the community, and always looking for costs and things like that. So I saw that there was a void. I saw that it was something, you know, that I could contribute to my community, and I paired up with house of Palestine in Balboa Park. If you're familiar with San Diego and it's a like
Eman: I can talk all day about house pots, but they they do amazing work for the community and for I think it's someone told me that it's the only
Eman: like one of the only places in America that has, like nonprofits that has, like the Palestinian flag, like
Eman: like publicly, I have to like, confirm that. But
Eman: basically they do amazing work. So I, you know, a portion of my proceeds, of my costs go to supporting the work that they do in the community, and I'm really proud of like the work that I do with them. And
Eman: I it's a lot of work. It just is like, you all know, teaching one class.
Eman: I have to show up. If
Eman: 20 people signed up, or if 3 people signed up, and it's the same amount of work it to me.
Eman: it is. And I put a lot of
Eman: research into my classes. I put a lot of thought and effort, and I'm always the number. One thing on my mind is.
Eman: people are paying and taking time out of their day to come.
Eman: Listen to me, someone they don't know.
Bayan: System.
Eman: How can I provide the best of the best for them like.
Eman: It. It means a a lot to me that somebody would even like
Eman: you guys don't even know like, when I before I started
Eman: like really doing online and things like that. I was like selling like
Eman: dresses that I would make and whatever. And I like sometimes never wanted to charge. People like that's as an Arab like taking money from somebody is like the hardest thing I feel like you're always you want to just be like
Eman: gracious and charitable, and just like what's the word like? Always share with people.
Eman: And I feel like that's just in our nature. So when someone comes and spends money on like a service that I'm providing. I I take it really, seriously. And that's why I took a break like I did my 1st class, and I I left feeling like a little bit.
Eman: you know, uneasy about it. I felt like I didn't focus enough on the history
Eman: of Tatreez. And I didn't focus enough on the culture. I was really just focusing on the technical aspect, and just like the how to of Tatreez.
Eman: And the reason was because I was scared to
Eman: mess up to give like the wrong information, and I feel like it all goes back to just really having a deep rooted respect for the craft, for the culture, for the history and so when I I say all this to say that
Eman: I know, and I know that you guys
Eman: feel the same. I just know, because when you're an artist or a creative person
Eman: you, we all think the same like, I know when I
Eman: put so much thought and and work.
Eman: You know whether it's in a class that I've crafted, or a pattern or a product, whatever it is
Eman: even like a post on social media. I put so much work and effort, and I know what went behind it. When I see
Eman: someone come in who is like clearly disconnected from the culture. Just kind of.
Eman: you know, we're as Protestants. We're so used to people co-opting our culture in every aspect, whether it's clothing, music, food.
Eman: just our existence, like only talking about Palestine when it's quote unquote relevant when there's a tragedy happening. And that, you know.
Eman: it's just been really super. It's been super apparent, like it's been something that
Eman: I've noticed, and I know you've all noticed. And so you asked in the beginning, how does it make us feel?
Eman: I don't know. Some days it's sadness. Some days it's anger.
Eman: Some days it's a little bit of like
Eman: even, I guess I would say, like being proud of the work. But and and just knowing, that's like resonating with people. So it's always changing. I
Eman: again, I don't. I'm not here to tell anybody what to do, what not to do. People are. Gonna do you know people?
Eman: There's no, there's no actual rule book like people are gonna behave in the way that they want. But it's just more so that I want people to remember
Eman: that
Eman: maybe something that is a trend to you, or something that you just, you know, picked up one day and found
Eman: interesting because it was pretty.
Eman: You know I have plenty of crafts that I do all the time, and hobbies that I get into, that I love.
Eman: and I would never think to
Eman: like make a whole business and teach people.
Eman: even if I feel like really, you know, like, because I I have no reason to like
Eman: with, even with sewing, like. I've been sewing my whole life, not my whole life, my whole like adult life.
Eman: I think I'm I'm pretty good at it, but I I have like no connection like to it. And it
Eman: I'm not saying that like, if you know I have to.
Eman: But if you, I think you're doing yourself a disservice. If you are boring like
Eman: time and energy into something that you don't like, really have a connection to in general. That's just my opinion. People.
Eman: You know, lots of people would disagree because of capitalism whatever. But but.
Bayan: My opinion is like, yeah, if that, yeah.
Eman: Yeah, it just is like, not everyone has to like, connect with the work they do. I get that? It's like a privileged thing to say even, and I totally understand. But when you're talking about
Eman: not only someone's culture, but someone a culture that is actively like literally, actively.
Eman: you know, being erased and under threat and under occupation. It's like
Eman: you're not only doing yourself a disservice, but disservice by getting into.
Eman: You know that realm. But you're doing
Eman: those you know Palestinians a disservice as well, and what I mean is just taking away opportunity from them by like hosting your own workshops when somebody else is making money off of the cause. Even you know. I this might be. Maybe I
Eman: I have. I have to say this.
Amanne: I haven't.
Eman: I think it could be a whole episode in of itself, but
Eman: I think a lot of people just hide behind the charity.
Eman: Yes, Park.
Lina: Okay. Okay. Wait. Okay.
Bayan: Wait! Wait! That's actually yes.
Lina: Yes, yes.
Amanne: Let me about that I was talking about.
Eman: Because I'm the one that brought it up. I want to be very, very clear. I want to be very clear. I think people will be like, what's wrong with you. You don't like charity. Of course I do. Of course I do. I think like I've had people say, well, like, you know, I'm going to host a workshop. But I'm not keeping any of the funds like it's going to charity. And I'm like, Okay, you know.
Eman: cool like, Yeah, that's nice, like.
Eman: cool again. But I want people to like, think
Eman: for a second like, 1st of all.
Eman: is that all that the Palestinian cause is to you like, is it.
Bayan: Because.
Eman: I, in my opinion, like
Eman: you, you guys can probably put it better than I can, but it's like it just I feel like a lot of people just hide behind it because it gives it gives them easy out to be able to do the thing that they want to do. And
Eman: and it it just
Eman: reduces our cause to just like, you know, a charitable like, we're just a humanitarian cause like no, this is.
Eman: People are like our whole culture, our whole identity. Everything is is under threat and.
Eman: And it all goes back to the dehumanization of Palestinians, and
Eman: the more and more we reduce, like ourselves, to like just a charitable cause. I think it does tie into that dehumanization as well. You know, we're just seen as
Eman: people in need of help like, you know, starving people. And if it does, yeah.
Bayan: It puts us in a position of pity. Iman, like.
Eman: Yeah.
Bayan: And we don't. Palestinians, aren't. We? Don't need anyone's pity at all.
Bayan: As business owners in the diaspora, as teachers in the diaspora as just any Palestinian in the diaspora, or as Palestinians that are on the ground. We are not a
Bayan: a a shab of people that requires pity, like. We are like a a people of honor like we stand on that like we
Bayan: we share our arts and our crafts and our lives.
Bayan: We're not asking for sympathy. We're not asking for pity. We're asking for liberation.
Bayan: and the Palestinian cause is a very much a political one. It's not a humanitarian cause. It's not a charitable cause. Obviously, there are things going on. And specifically in Gaza right now, where there is a famine. But why is the famine happening right? It's because Israel is denying food from entering right? So for us to.
Bayan: I think it's just important for people to know, because, like Amen, you let it up so beautifully with like the amount of time and effort that not only like we do in our work, but I'm sure that a lot of Palestinians do, wherever you exist, whether you exist in Palestine, whether you're in the media world, whether you're in law doesn't matter where you are.
Bayan: there's so much time and energy and like emotion like, it's an emotional, heavy experience, like the amount of work you put in
Bayan: for then someone to come in and to just
Bayan: like, just for me, the way that I describe it is, it's a feeling of being robbed.
Bayan: It's a feeling of not being appreciated. It honestly, sometimes very much discourages me. Sometimes I need to take a step back and be like, wait, wait! Well, I created all of this
Bayan: for people, for the community.
Bayan: And then you know, some people are just kind of like just they just kind of burst your bubble in a way, you know. And so some of that bursting of the bubble is when you know you, host, for example, I think the most common thing. I'm sure this happens to all of us at some point in time where
Bayan: people will attribute the workshop to
Bayan: charity, and my favorite thing is when they
Bayan: offered to not pay you enough, but they want to also, at the same time send funds to charity. And it's like I. We understand that nobody's saying that we don't want to fund Palestine. If you want to fund Philistine the best way to fund it is directly, but there are ways to fundraise, and, like a workshop is a great way to do that. It is
Bayan: but at the same time you're saying we want to support Palestinians.
Bayan: But the artist that we're using to for the labor, for the marketing, for the work. We're not even going to compensate them enough. Are you really supporting Palestinians in their entire capacity? Because to recognize a Palestinian. There is a difference between a Palestinian that's in the west bank, a Palestinian that's in Gaza, and a Palestinian that's in the Diaspora.
Bayan: But to support us as a collective people. There needs to be an understanding about how you approach someone as well. So when charity kind of just gets slapped onto it. It it can't be. I think that's the thing. It can be just.
Amanne: Feel that Palestine.
Bayan: It's a bar.
Amanne: Marketing tool. And that's.
Bayan: Is, that.
Amanne: Palestine is not a marketing initiative like that.
Bayan: Drained in it from the get.
Amanne: Yeah. And it's something that has, especially since last October. I've talked to another artist friend of mine. Who hopefully, we'll have on an episode soon. But we talked a lot about this about the idea that, like, we're constantly expected to do charity like constantly, constantly. And I'm sorry I'm gonna say something that might ruffle feathers. But like, when you're charging $25 for a class
Amanne: like that's not like, how much money are you really raising like, I'm sorry like that's like that's that doesn't make any sense to me. I also like I am not one of these wealthy Arabs, but I do like in the Bay Area, like the Bay Area, is a very wealthy community. I have been to fundraisers, Muslim fundraisers, Palestinian fundraisers, where they raise like a million dollars in a night
Amanne: like they do, and guess what it's. They're sitting down at a dinner, and they're just giving money like there are ways. There are much more effective ways to fundraise and do charity things. And I also get there are needs for smaller funds, more grassroots stuff. But I think by end to your point. It's like you need to also make sure that the Palestinian that you're employing is being taken care of as well.
Amanne: And it is not. It's not like, I don't want people to think that this is like a money, you know, a money thing. It's literally like.
Amanne: you know
Amanne: about the fact, like all the time, in every type of industry and every type of work, about compensating people appropriately for their labor. And I think also, like, you know, Lena and I just did an episode to close out our last season where we specifically talked about the value of Tatreez, and you know the importance of not devaluing our art, because that in turn devalues our culture as a whole.
Amanne: And you know, Aman, I just want to go back to one thing that you you had mentioned earlier to Emman had talked about. You know, when you 1st started teaching like kind of making sure that there wasn't any other people, any other Palestinians doing it. And if there were, you were going to reach out and you had somebody reach out and all that stuff. And I actually really love what you said about that, because I think it goes back
Amanne: to the core of, I think for a lot of us. A big part of is the community aspect, you know. You spoke a lot about how you've helped grow your like community in San Diego Bayan. I know you do a lot of work in the Chicago area, and then I know you've been doing more and more in-person stuff in New York and like here in the Bay Area, like.
Amanne: I'm not the only person who is building this community, you know. We have a growing community of people, Palestinian and Non Palestinian.
Bayan: Yeah.
Amanne: Who are really dedicating themselves to building this community, and I will personally say, like, if you're in the Bay area and you're Palestinian and you want to start teaching. You want to start like getting into this world, reach out to me like I'm so happy to like support and stuff. And I think again, just emphasizing what Iman said. Like the idea of like working together.
Amanne: Just, you know, literally, even if it's just support, I mean, look at. All of us, like all 4 of us, are in different parts of the country, like we're all doing
Amanne: different things, but that are adjacent, and I will be the 1st one to say, like I definitely feel supported and have been felt, have felt supported by each one of you all. And like, I think that's the most important thing. Whether you're Palestinian or non-Palestinian, like being a part of this community means supporting and uplifting each other. If you're not Palestinian, it means, you know, doing a little extra work to support and uplift your
Amanne: Palestinian friends. But even if you're Palestinian, I think it's also an important reminder.
Bayan: Yeah. And I think one of the main things that I'm hearing like, especially what you just said. Imani, is.
Bayan: I think, like the the main rule of thumb is to just like approach people with grace like to
Bayan: like, I think there, there's this notion. There's like this saying,
Bayan: I don't know where. I think it's
Bayan: an Arab proverb, not sure but it's like when somebody comes in to learn something. All of a sudden they think they know everything. But once you continue to learn, you actually realize that you know nothing. And so you need to be graceful with yourself and with the people that you're approaching, that you know a drop
Bayan: and an ocean. And so if you know that one drop that's amazing, that's amazing. But that's just the beginning. You still need to. You know. Don't jump from 0 to 100, you know you. Still, you can't bypass anything like I've even had just like even just like Palestinians as well, that want to learn. And they want to like immediately start selling. And I'm like, that's amazing. I love that. That's a great goal. But you still have to learn this, and you have to learn this. And you have to learn this. And then you can start selling.
Bayan: you know. And you need to. You need to go step by step and like this, this that goes for Palestinians and non-Palestinians. But you people want to jump. We want to jump. We want like instant gratification, and it just it can't happen. It can't happen. So I was like a non Palestinian as well, it's how are you approaching that one drop? And for Palestinians that already are in this space that have been in this space for years that we are hearing how put in a lot of time and a lot of effort and a lot of energy into this.
Bayan: It's just the idea of coming in at the end and slapping something on top, or coming in at the end and taking something away. It's that kind of quickness and swiftness and lack of consideration that we are trying to talk about. That, I think, is the main issue that needs to be addressed, and I think it is addressed by people like slowing down, and is a natural
Bayan: healing remedy for that, because it should slow us all the way down, especially in a capitalistic society, and remind us that we are building together like, Amani said, like we are meant to be in community with one another, get to know one another, support one another in the ways that best fit us, and have difficult conversations, which is what this is too.
Amanne: Yeah, definitely, okay, I know, we can keep talking because that's what we do but we all have schedules and calendars that we need to mind. So I think, appropriate way to kind of like wrap up the conversation. We've dropped a lot of this like throughout the conversation, but would love to hear from everyone. What would be your message honestly
Amanne: to Palestinians and non-Palestinians on how to really engage with Tatis in a way where it's highlighting a cultural appreciation.
Amanne: But yeah, and do you want to go first? st You're looking at me.
Amanne: You're stare. You're looking into my eyes. So I'm like, Okay, tearing to your soul.
Bayan: The lighting. It's the lighting, the lighting just like.
Amanne: That's me!
Bayan: Spotlight.
Bayan: I will say.
Bayan: I think my main message, my main message is always just going to be to approach it with grace. I think if I want to be more specific, it's you know I exist in in both worlds of like teaching and design, and I think in both cases it's what someone does with the work afterwards.
Bayan: Because I think most Palestinians, myself included, we will say we'll start off with being like, Hey, this is like, well, let's be intentional, and then we welcome into the craft. But I think it's what people do after that.
Bayan: That is a Testament to whether they heard you when you said, Are you being intentional, or whether they disregard you, and honestly, in a way, make you feel used? And that's the one thing that I think
Bayan: is what discourages me sometimes, and what makes me feel like I need to take a step back, and I'm sure that
Bayan: many other Palestinian like on this in this group, and many others outside of this group can attest to, is like.
Bayan: Are you being intentional? Are you using that person's materials from classes or their designs without them knowing. And again, like Iman said with designs, there is some room
Bayan: for inspiration, and for you to take that we don't want to discourage people. This is for Palestinians as well and non-Palestinians. Non-Palestinians is definitely a different conversation about appropriation, but, like
Bayan: you can be inspired by someone else's work. But when it's a blatant copying of that work or a blatant taking resources, copying them and using them, I don't think that that's acceptable.
Bayan: I don't think anyone would appreciate that anyone that puts time and effort into something would appreciate that. So I think, being graceful in that you know.
Bayan: being encouraged to continue to trees is a beautiful thing, you know. Just don't don't bypass the growth like you got to still put in the work you still, you still got to put in the steps. You know. Don't jump from 0 to 100 really quickly and just slow down. Appreciate the artists that you're working with.
Bayan: Appreciate the art that you've learned, and approach it with the utmost grace that you can. And just, you know. Do one step at a time. There's no need to to jump that this isn't going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. We're going to keep the community thriving and everybody listening is a part of it. Everybody's a part of this community, and we want everybody to be involved and to come out. It's just a matter of just approaching things very gracefully and and respectfully.
Eman: I think that my message would be honestly I and I say this with with like
Eman: just a lot of love and care for for people.
Eman: but you don't have to do everything you don't have to. Yeah, it doesn't need to be 0 or a hundred and as somebody who
Eman: over the years I've always dabbled in, like many different creative hobbies and
Eman: different communities. There is this like
Eman: desire sometimes to when you start practicing something to automatically want to monetize it. And I and I understand that it's it's in this day and age. It's hard to just have a hobby
Eman: that is just taking up your time and not giving you anything, you know. Monetary in return I get it. I get it. I've been there, and I know it's maybe ironic coming from somebody who has like monetized her hobby. But I've spent years and years and years being a consumer of Tatreez practicing Tatreez, and I didn't just one day wake up and decide like
Eman: I'm going to do something, and I want to make money from it. It was just with like, with your your journeys as well. It was a natural progression, and it was because I saw there was a void. And I think it's actually also good business advice, I think. In any, in any type of field.
Eman: what's your purpose? Are you filling a void? Are you solving a problem? Are you.
Eman: Are you like really adding value to whatever community? Let's forget Salty for a second. Just any community that you're in.
Eman: Are you like actively adding value? Or are you just taking advantage of people, people's insecurities? People's
Eman: hardships, you know a tragedy like with like, really, when it comes to intention. What is your intention behind
Eman: the work that you do
Eman: like? It's for a lot of people, you know. You clock in at a 9 to 5 job you just follow, you know, orders that you get all day, and that's 1 thing you know you. You have a disconnect from from your job, and
Eman: you know
Eman: I can see that. But when your when your work is art, and when your work is like your whole, you know
Eman: your your identity in some kind like there has to be intention behind it, because it's not simply just you putting out a class or you putting out a product and getting something in return. There is a as we talked about in this episode, there's a lot behind it so
Eman: really like, be intentional with the work that you do really, before you do anything, think about the reason, and it's going to help you in the long run, like, not only is it just good community, you know, we talk about all the time and not being like an individualistic
Eman: mindset.
Eman: And and I think community is ultimately what is gonna
Eman: liberate us at the end of the day.
Bayan: Yeah.
Eman: So we talk about community all the time. But then people are not like putting it into practice when they're doing the work that they're doing. You know, we every day of our lives we're putting energy into.
Eman: you know, our work. And it's gonna
Eman: it's gonna hurt you in the long run because you're going to wake up one day and really feel
Eman: a disconnect from yourself and and what you're doing. It happens to everybody. So I think it's just I want people to
Eman: to hopefully have
Eman: heard the words that we've been saying this whole video, this whole episode, and in like a loving light, and it just as a.
Bayan: You know.
Eman: It's all coming from a place of love and care. And
Eman: yeah, just appreciation for one another are in, you know, our talents, our skills. And
Eman: I think that's what I want people to take away. You don't. You don't have to. You can. You can just simply practice the 3 enjoy it, you know. Support artists. And
Eman: yeah.
Amanne: Beautifully said
Amanne: amazing. Well, thank you both for being here. Like, I said. I know we can probably keep talking and talking and talking about this subject, so maybe we'll do it again later. But
Amanne: thank you for for opening up and being vulnerable and sharing your thoughts. I know this is it can be a little bit of a controversial subject, and people can be really sensitive about this. But it's important to allow policy and voices to be heard on this topic. So thank you both for being here, and I know we'll talk to you guys soon.
Bayan: I know. Thank you guys so much for hosting this. It's such an important episode.
Lina: Always such a good time chatting with Bayan and Iman, and so fun to have them at the same time. I think one of the things for me that I also wanted to kind of reiterate at the end was, and it came out, and everyone's kind of thoughts as they were sharing. But Patrice isn't just like this. Nice, pretty.
Lina: sometimes geometric thing, you know it. It has so much meaning. And that's kind of why, that's at the core of why Palestinians
Lina: feel so strongly about teaching is because we know that it holds our history. It holds our past, it holds our present, it holds our future. It tells our stories, it's our and especially for us in the diaspora. It's our connection to Palestine. As we practice.
Lina: So for us, it's something that is so much deeper than just like this thing that you see, or this thing that you can wear this thing that kind of represents Palestine when you're walking around like it's not, it's that's not what it is. It's so much more than that. And I think this goes to both Palestinians and non-Palestinians that
Lina: we like. We, as a collective need to be more aware of the the deeper meaning behind. If you don't know it, step aside because somebody else does know it, and they can come share it with the rest. And I think one more thing just before, like
Lina: you know, I hand it over to you, Amani is. I feel like I've noticed this especially over the last year and a half or so is that people just like slap a watermelon emoji to like their status and like, Oh, I'm resisting. I'm doing something for the Palestinian like. No, you cannot just again you cannot just slap Palestinian to a fundraiser and say, you're doing something, or you're doing something huge, or you're doing us a favor like no, that's not what this is. And that's
Lina: that is kind of the core of like what we're trying to get at in this episode. But yeah.
Amanne: Yeah, no. And I think to to that point, like, you know, we talked a lot about.
Amanne: for as us as Palestinians who teach the threes and participate in the threes. Why, all the different reasons why it's important to us and all that. And you know, we talked a lot about like the preservation of culture, and I guess, sneak peek to another future episode. But, you know, there's all the conversation about what is resistance, and what role does the threes play in it, and all that stuff. And you know, at the core. For me, personally,
Amanne: cultural preservation is a part of resistance. The threes is a part of resistance, because it's a part of cultural preservation, but it exactly to what you were saying, like in the same vein of you can't just throw up a watermelon, emoji, like you can't just like, do the threes and be like I'm resisting like no baby. No, you're not like that's not, that's not it.
Amanne: And I think just overall. You know, we initially started the conversation, because, you know, to give additional context for people like there's a conversation that we were having the 4 of us kind of offline for quite a while, you know, with just different things that come up. And I think this more recent one. I think it might have been like someone had reached out to me about like not being Palestinian and wanting to host a class.
Amanne: but they know how to do,Tatreez, but you know they don't really know about the history and the background and stuff, and that's kind of where it started. But as we kind of have continued the conversation like it is not a message just for non-Palestinians. It's a message for everyone.
Amanne: you know, I think is the intention of what you are doing like. Think about that intention like, what? Why are you doing this? And if you decide that
Amanne: you know
Amanne: you have the right intentions. Then I think it's it's important to dive deeper. You know. Iman mentioned community. We all kind of talked about like the education you just talked about, the education to like understanding the history and the background. That truly is what differentiates and makes this a deeper practice is like understanding what came before it. So yeah, I mean, I think with that said like.
Amanne: of course, everyone's going to feel differently.
Amanne: Everyone's going to have a different opinion of things, and I think at the end of the day, you know, having the right intentions, and and talking to people like, have conversations within the Palestinian community. Again, whether you are Palestinian or not. And yes, if you are Palestinian, you should still be thinking very intentionally about what you're doing, and why you're doing it. So
Amanne: we'll we'll get off our soapbox for now.
Lina: That sounds good. Now, I think this has opened up so many more other conversations which people can look forward to. We'll definitely dive into them later. But for now, thank you guys again. So much for listening to Tatreez talk. We want to hear about your Tatreez journeys. So please share your stories with us at tatreeztalk@gmail.com. And we might just have you on an upcoming episode. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite listening platform, and be sure to leave a 5 Star review.You can follow me at @linasthobe and Amanne at @minamanne, and make sure to follow the Pod @Tatreeztalk, and we'll talk to you guys soon.
